Paladin: CoT or not?

[Cornflower]

Ok, so I'm at a crossroad. Do I continue levelling my paladin as paladin, or do I start getting CoT levels? I've read the wiki and they claim that if you go CoT, you gain some of the fighter's advantages over paladin, but I can't really see exactly what that should be.

As far as I can tell, the only difference is feats and possibly saves. So, where do I go from here? Continue Paladin, or go Champion of Torm (or Vor as the case may be)?

[Wing--Zero]

Depends on what your wanting the Pally for.

[Kane0]

CoT gives you a feat every 2 levels like a figter up to 10, but also +1 to allsaves every 2 levels too. On top of that Smite Evil, Lay on Hands and Divine Wrath all dovetail nicely with paladin abilities.

[Cornflower]

Depends on what your wanting the Pally for.

Soloing BSK up to level 40, finding lots of good loot and in general kick ass....

[Kane0]

Most of the time CoT is superior to Pally, but you can only choose to get levels in up to 3 classes maximum so if you're looking at something else than you might not want to take it. Also epic levels of Pally give more feats than epic levels of CoT, though both get access to Great Smite which can be pretty amazing when you build for it.

For soloing I'd suggest the Epic Damage Reduction feats (need Con 21+) and maybe an Epic Energy resistance or two. You're on the record for not liking Dwarves so putting this with Dwarven Defender is off the table but Barbarian gets you good attack bonus, plenty of HP and a few points more DR which stacks with both the feats and gear. The epic rage feats you may or may not find useful.

Oh, protip: If you're having trouble hitting a guy try some ranks in Taunt, assuming you have them spare. Not always the best idea but it can be better than hoping for a string of crit threats.

[Garek]

Depending on your CHA, COT can add alot to a build.

The bonus feats definitely help if you're feat starved, the saves help, and COT's Divine Wrath is only 1/day but can be really great to help you kill something quickly (bonus to AB and damage).

If you were going to do any smiting it's a must to use those extra feats as epic feats and stack the great smiting feats.

You can also use COT levels to help any Wisdom character since they get Great Wisdom as bonus epic feats.

Depending on your current abilities (CHA, WIS, STR, CON, INT) and your exact level we could help you figure out if COT could help or not. Sometimes the feats you want have ability prereqs that must be met.

Post your current stats and level and feats if you want more detailed help/input.

[Cornflower]

STR: 22
DEX: 10
CON: 10
INT: 12
WIS: 16
CHA: 14

At level 26, so CON 21+ is already out of the question. Since I had problem hitting bosses, I set all extra point in STR instead of any other. (I told you I suck at building a good character....)

Feats:
Armor Skin
Aura of Courage
Cleave
Divine Grace
Divine Health
Epic Prowess
Great Cleave
Imp crit Katana
Imp crit Scythe
Knockdown
Power Attack
Zen Archery
Also, all armor, weapons, shield.

[Kane0]

Hmm. Zen archery and a two different melee weapons for weapon focus/imp crit was a small mistake but the rest seems alright, unusually high Wisdom notwithstanding.

You can increase Cha by 1-2 so you can nab Divine Might and Divine Shield, then put the rest in strength for Overwelming and Dev crit in one of your weapons. You will need a great strength feat and weapon focus for it, and you'll be wanting epic weapon focus too. Just pick one of the two weapons you've chosen for Improved Crit.

Oh and Toughness, with Con 10 you will be needing the HP.

[Cornflower]

Thank you!

Will do.

[Garek]

Yeah I agree with Kane0.

The good news is your stats are not that bad. You can still get Divine Might/Shield (maybe less important than Might) and Overwhelming and Dev Crit.

Definitely "Yes" on toughness and you may want to consider taking Extra Turning on a Paly level since you will want the extra damage from Divine Might more often than 3x + CHA modifier. (Definitely get CHA gear to help)

Your preference of course, but a one handed weapon will give you more AC from using a shield and since you don't have a lot of HP or EDR you will want whatever AC you can get. Besides you can add an ability to a shield and the katana has a slightly larger crit range. Add keen to it and you'll crit more often than you think.

Since some of the feats you will need require other feats you might want to plan out your remaining feats. Putting remaining ability points into STR will get you to 26 so you can take Dev crit at lv36.

As far as some COT levels vs all Paly I think you could do either. COT5 gets Divine Wrath and COT10 gets you a few more points of AB and DMG when activating. You will get 5 feats from those COT levels, but you lose out on 3 epic paly ones.

If you want some help planning exact levels you need to take what just holler back on here.

[Cornflower]

Good advice. Thank you!

[Cornflower]

Yeah I agree with Kane0.

The good news is your stats are not that bad. You can still get Divine Might/Shield (maybe less important than Might) and Overwhelming and Dev Crit.

Definitely "Yes" on toughness and you may want to consider taking Extra Turning on a Paly level since you will want the extra damage from Divine Might more often than 3x + CHA modifier. (Definitely get CHA gear to help)

Your preference of course, but a one handed weapon will give you more AC from using a shield and since you don't have a lot of HP or EDR you will want whatever AC you can get. Besides you can add an ability to a shield and the katana has a slightly larger crit range. Add keen to it and you'll crit more often than you think.

Since some of the feats you will need require other feats you might want to plan out your remaining feats. Putting remaining ability points into STR will get you to 26 so you can take Dev crit at lv36.

As far as some COT levels vs all Paly I think you could do either. COT5 gets Divine Wrath and COT10 gets you a few more points of AB and DMG when activating. You will get 5 feats from those COT levels, but you lose out on 3 epic paly ones.

If you want some help planning exact levels you need to take what just holler back on here.

To continue this discussion.... If I should start a new paladin, which path to go?
1. Pure Paladin?
2. Paladin/Fighter/WM?
3. Paladin/CoT?

Objective is to be able to solo most of the server.

[Garek]

To continue this discussion.... If I should start a new paladin, which path to go?
1. Pure Paladin?
2. Paladin/Fighter/WM?
3. Paladin/CoT?

Objective is to be able to solo most of the server.

I would choose the 4th option.

4. Paladin/COT/WM

COT is just like fighter but without the Weapon Spec. and EWS, but your saves go up. For PvM Paly23/COT10/WM7 would be a nice combo.

[Cornflower]

I would choose the 4th option.

4. Paladin/COT/WM

COT is just like fighter but without the Weapon Spec. and EWS, but your saves go up. For PvM Paly23/COT10/WM7 would be a nice combo.

OK. But how? Do I start with 23 paladin, then add CoT, or what?

[Ming]

I would choose the 4th option.

4. Paladin/COT/WM

COT is just like fighter but without the Weapon Spec. and EWS, but your saves go up. For PvM Paly23/COT10/WM7 would be a nice combo.

OK. But how? Do I start with 23 paladin, then add CoT, or what?

Well since you need so many feats to access weapon master I would assume Gareks intention would be to take paladin till you can get cot, then cot to get all your feats, then wm and at that point the rest doesnt matter as far as order.