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I am sure this has been addressed elswhere.. but HOW CAN ONE BE A PALLY AND A PM?.. ok.. I said it.. goes against everything I believe is right.. did I say that out loud?.. matters not.. sheesh.. say no more.. is this a real build?.. that build should consume itself... I am an undead holy warior.. POOF.. that is beyond bogus.. one mans humble opinion..

1. A viable RP story.
2. You could RP something or setting something up that would ensure your Paladin's change either directly or indirectly.
3. Because its not the same as the Barb/Monk which just are plain contrary to eachother.. lol

My 2 cents. Don't be afraid to pick them up and say what you think of them.

hey here is a novel idea.

1. yes there should be some rp behind it.


2. do a remake of that char therefore avoiding having the powers that a paladin possesses


3. simply make a new char with what you want.

4. but really there should never be a pally/palemaster build it is a contradiction in itself, in fact a palemaster should never even be a mellee class type char they should be mages and always evil for they deal with necromancy.

5. if you want an evil char that has paladin like powers build a Blackguard.

my thoughts:

It's a game.

Thats why Blackstone has loose rules, so people can play the way they want and what they want.

-driller

Just treat it as a stop on the way to Lich-hood.

As it was originally written, a Lich can be any alignment, but would eventually fall to evil., so be a Lich that is lawful good, but say that you will fall eventually.

I'd imagine that a character build like that would have a lot of internal struggle in RP. It could involve a paladin build that is an undead slayer who decides to learn some necromancy in order to best understand the evil powers he/she is fighting. And in all situations of this type, as the paladin continues down this path, there would be an initial elation at discovering a new way to destroy and dominate the undead, followed by a series of justifications to continue such 'experiments'. I'd imagine, though, that after a time, this character wouldn't care about any of the god given powers in favor of the arcane, probably lapsing into a LN alignment and losing all paladin powers.

I could completely see a scenario like that fitting this character build. However, as with all fallen paladins, it would be difficult to not use the powers you had been given. Of course, in NWN the engine just won't allow you to GAIN any levels after losing your LG alignment. Maybe with this in mind, this character would be justifying their behavior so heavily, they still practice their paladin like behavior, play like LG, but in all reality be a bit more flexible about the ideas behing good and evil.

Some who play a PM do not play it as a Necromancer. The play it as the mechanic the game requires to represent an intense type of training to harden ones body and to ignore what would otherwise be a potentially fatal blow.

Much like the heros who suffer an almost certainly fatal wound from a spear, pull the spear up throught thier body to cleave the attacker and procede to draw the spear out to chuck it down range into another enemy, this type of warrior trains his body and his mind to fight through the injury and continue the struggle.

The offered PM Natural AC and the immunities taken by the class are excellent tools for the warrior who trains in such a fashion.

Just because a character make use of the PM class, does not mean they defile corpses, eat babies, or worship death. This is part of the reason I frown on the PM skin, but hey, whats done is done.

Just as the paladin class does not have to represent a holy warrior. It could just represent a warrior who has focused his training on crashing through magical wards.

Of course, in these cases... ideally...

.. a "hardened warrior" should not use the powers of the undead arm (Unless they are a monk who studied some kind of Ki attack) or cast the PM summons.
... a "spell crasher" should not use the holy power to smite.

Now I say ideally because, this is really up to you all as players.

You can be open minded and accept that a class is not a prison, it is a mechanic for exploring the possibilities and enjoy the building process more.

You can also identify those people who are lame and min/max and when you see the use of class powers which are not part of sensible RP, you can chose to ignore them and leave them in an RP void.

Myle

..thank you for your responses.... all polite and all credible...well... almost all...*wink.. I suppose I am more of a purist and since I never focus on PvP characters, I doubt some undead critter will holy smite me from within a void created by Time Stop.. but who knows?.. after all ..."it's just a game"

the paladin PM is completetly wrong if they RP both classes.. but if the char has a good background and if he RP only a paladin or only a pale master it is ok. The problem is when you try to have both classes and u RP and say that are ARE a paladin 'half-undead' due necromancy magic.

While reading this post a biblical story abou Saul came to mind. He was the #1 christian persecutor and killed many beleivers for what he thought was the better good! Many saw him as a dealer of death. However, he met Jesus on the road to Demascus (spelling is probably wrong) and became a beleiver and wrote many of the books of the bible and planted many churches for Christs sake.

I guess my point is this, you could be a Pale Master and has a devine intervention that causes you to see your wicked ways and change to a Palidin who stands for justice and right. However, you will always bare the scars of your previous ways.

Thinking this through, I would think the same could be true for the opposite.

HelloBSK wrote:While reading this post a biblical story abou Saul came to mind. He was the #1 christian persecutor and killed many beleivers for what he thought was the better good! Many saw him as a dealer of death. However, he met Jesus on the road to Demascus (spelling is probably wrong) and became a beleiver and wrote many of the books of the bible and planted many churches for Christs sake.

I guess my point is this, you could be a Pale Master and has a devine intervention that causes you to see your wicked ways and change to a Palidin who stands for justice and right. However, you will always bare the scars of your previous ways.

Thinking this through, I would think the same could be true for the opposite.

I've always said you can RP anything. But, if people attempt to do as you state above, then how would they ever explain taking 1 level of the class they turned away from at the end just to get those skills?

The Paly/Sorc/PM is allowed because PM's are NOT evil in NWN. They are NON-GOOD! BSK allows you to change your alignment, just not your Lawfulness, which would really mess with balance. I think the Paly/BG builds can be argued both ways as well.

I agree with Berf too. You have to RP one or the other though. You can't be a Lawful Good PM or a LN Paly.

I don't care how well anyone RP's a Pally/PM. It is not right, not one bit, put it this way, if PM did not have it's really good stats... I am almost sure PM would be as rare a class as Harper Scout .. This is really one of the reasons I don't play on Bsk that much anymore, The rp is getting worse and worse. Every now and then I may come upon a fairly decent rp'er, which is a very nice thing to see... but it still will not change the other 50+ people that have come here with their downgraded style of RP.

Everyone has their own style of RP.. so I am not judging anyone with agression about how they Rp. I just really am disappointed that some people have not realized what they are doing, Mixing Pally and PM just because it is a good Pvp build. Of course NWN is just a game and games are meant to be fun for people. But right now, I just don't think this is acceptable.. hopefully one day we will be back to builds fitting into their RP, until then, we must set our roots and hope for the best .

I myself have a PM that is mixed with a melee type build. That char was not meant for RP, moreso meant for finding forge stones at Umgah. Even then though, when RP came to me, I had my bony arm exposed. I had no Paladin invovled in this build btw, but even then when RP came to me ... I rped that arm as fighting a dragon who layed down a large breath of fire on his arm while it was being held out to swing at him, therefore his skin burned off but his skeletal part of his arm remained..

How do you know what their build is unless you metagame?

-driller

driller wrote:How do you know what their build is unless you metagame?

-driller

Well, if the person knows that the person with this build is a Paladin and spots his skeleton arm whilst in another suit of armour/clothing - but otherwise, my thoughts as well fall upon metagaming.