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Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:34 pm
by driller
It isn't possible to do anything with sneak attacks at the moment and probably never. The best thing will be to lower it to 1d4 or increase the levels required for the boost as was mentioned before.
Yune wrote: āTue Oct 01, 2019 1:30 pm
If this was only a PvP issue, making it only active on sneak attacks would be fine, but doesn't change anything for PvM.
Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:30 pm
by itchyfunk
*sadness* but I like Sin
But it's probably the right thing to do. Considering most of these builds will be built to maxout APR the current 1d6/3lvl amounts to an averag 35pts per hit... On a 10apr toon that's a lot of damage bypassing defenses.
Maybe make it 1d4/5lvls for a Max of 6d4...which would be an additional average 15pts per hit... That's inline with a near maxed out DM and still a lot of bypass damage per round.
Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:37 am
by Cornflower
itchyfunk wrote: āTue Oct 01, 2019 7:30 pm
*sadness* but I like Sin
But it's probably the right thing to do. Considering most of these builds will be built to maxout APR the current 1d6/3lvl amounts to an averag 35pts per hit... On a 10apr toon that's a lot of damage bypassing defenses.
Maybe make it 1d4/5lvls for a Max of 6d4...which would be an additional average 15pts per hit... That's inline with a near maxed out DM and still a lot of bypass damage per round.
Yeah, or maybe d6/5 levels, or d4/3 levels. I'd think d4/3 levels is easier to handle in the build. It's easier to think in 3-level chunks than in 5-level chunks.
Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:30 am
by Yunim
As long as the bonus damage ignores DI/DR as it currently does I'm fine with lowering the damage. I've already started a damage calc for the best assassin builds, I'll post the results here when I've finished with it.
Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:10 am
by itchyfunk
Yeah. Above I assumed the damage still bypasses DI/DR. Agree that it that changes it would be swinging the pendulum too far in the opposite direction.
EDIT: "if that changes..."* phone typo's suck. that is all.
Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:49 am
by Yunim
For the damage calc I tested 8 builds, 4 assassins and 4 non-assassins, which are some of the best DPS builds. Below is the average damage per round for each build, numbers in brackets are the results if the bonus damage was changed to d4 rather than d6. I only give the best result for a particular level spread, so for example there are actually 6 Figh12/WM25/Pal3 variants but only 1 result for each boss. There's no real way to discuss this without giving spoilers so I'll just give the bosses a random letter for their name.
Overall I think that changing to d4 is probably the best fix, assassins would still be decent DPS builds but their damage would be toned down to the level of WMs.
===
Code: Select all
Boss B
493 (457) - Rang21/Monk1/Ass18
458 - Figh12/WM25/Pal3
458 - Figh14/WM25/Monk1
445 (421) - Rang21/Pal4/Ass15
420 (387) - Rang10/Pal3/Ass27
393 - Rang35/Pal3/Monk2
385 - Rang35/Figh4/Monk1
290 (264) - Monk4/Pal6/Ass30
Code: Select all
Boss D
764 (715) - Rang21/Monk1/Ass18
741 - Rang35/Figh4/Monk1
735 - Rang35/Pal3/Monk2
619 - Figh14/WM25/Monk1
600 (570) - Rang21/Pal4/Ass15
553 (505) - Rang10/Pal3/Ass27
520 (470) - Monk4/Pal6/Ass30
479 - Figh12/WM25/Pal3
Code: Select all
Boss E
507 (432) - Monk4/Pal6/Ass30
379 (335) - Rang10/Pal3/Ass27
327 - Figh12/WM25/Pal3
287 (278) - Rang21/Pal4/Ass15
282 - Rang35/Pal3/Monk2
201 (188) - Rang21/Monk1/Ass18
162 - Figh14/WM25/Monk1
155 - Rang35/Figh4/Monk1
Code: Select all
Boss S
581 (509) - Monk4/Pal6/Ass30
553 (499) - Rang10/Pal3/Ass27
464 (433) - Rang21/Pal4/Ass15
430 - Figh12/WM25/Pal3
427 (372) - Rang21/Monk1/Ass18
308 - Rang35/Pal3/Monk2
195 - Figh14/WM25/Monk1
190 - Rang35/Figh4/Monk1
Code: Select all
Boss W
455 - Figh14/WM25/Monk1
388 - Figh12/WM25/Pal3
285 - Rang35/Figh4/Monk1
269 (260) - Rang21/Pal4/Ass15
266 (255) - Rang21/Monk1/Ass18
222 - Rang35/Pal3/Monk2
187 (177) - Rang10/Pal3/Ass27
88 (83) - Monk4/Pal6/Ass30
Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:25 am
by Cornflower
Iām guessing this is with Kama for all monk-builds, but what weapon are you calculating for the others?
Also:impressive!
Seems like d4 is a good compromise, not nerfed, but adjusted.
Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:37 pm
by itchyfunk
Nice work Yunim! Interesting to see the impact of the AB/AC splits for some of the more similar builds also.
Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:54 pm
by Yunim
Cornflower wrote: āWed Oct 02, 2019 11:25 am
Iām guessing this is with Kama for all monk-builds, but what weapon are you calculating for the others?
Monks use kamas, non-monks use both godly waraxes and kukris.
Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:04 pm
by Adalon
I happened to level an assassin before the changes went in. The class was definitely underpowered before, but now it seems like it is doing crazy amounts of damage. I would agree with the above that just dropping it from d6 to d4 but keeping the same 3 level schedule would probably be the correct move.
Re: Assassin Changes
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:00 pm
by Yunim
I noticed that the assassin damage was lowered to d4 while farming today. The difference is noticeable but the damage is still decent so I think it's an okay nerf. I haven't tried an assassin on a boss run since the change but they should still do decent damage even with the lower damage.
