Paladin: CoT or not?

[Kane0]

Bite the bullet and make a Dwarven Defender mate

To get the most out of your CoT levels you want to get into WM as early as possible so your bonus feats from the rest of CoT are epic feats. Assuming human Pally 9 then CoT 4 then wm 7 will get you to 20 then you can use your epic levels on Pally and/or CoT as you see fit. Note that you'll be very stat starved though with being unable to dump dex, wis or int (pally and WM minimums) as well as wanting good str, con and cha.

Edit: Rule of thumb I've noticed in Blackstone is dealing damage is usually not a problem, taking it is where the challenge lies especially for soloing. You either need a really good AC or a really good DR/resistances and you always want more HP.
WM helps you out-DPS your opponent which can be hit-and-miss as a survival strategy, especially against crit immune enemies (undead, constructs, oozes) and the occasional ranged type (archers, casters). The high costs of entry sometimes just aren't worth it.

[Cornflower]

I found a Paladin/Fighter/WM-build, that's very similar to your suggestion. I think I'll try that and see if that works. It misses some CoT perks, but it seems fairly well thought out.

[Garek]

Well since you need so many feats to access weapon master I would assume Gareks intention would be to take paladin till you can get cot, then cot to get all your feats, then wm and at that point the rest doesnt matter as far as order.

Yes that was my intention.

Sounds like he found his option though.

Good Luck!

[Cornflower]

Well since you need so many feats to access weapon master I would assume Gareks intention would be to take paladin till you can get cot, then cot to get all your feats, then wm and at that point the rest doesnt matter as far as order.

Yes that was my intention.

Sounds like he found his option though.

Good Luck!

Thank you!

[Cornflower]

OK. Reviving this now... I tried out the Paladin/Fighter/WM build, but I didn't like it. It was probably very good, but if I wanted Fighter/WM, i could have stayed with my fighter.

Now here's what I got:
Paladin, lvl 1:
14, 12, 12, 12, 14, 14
Exotic, Power Atk

(I ditched INT13, since ImpKD seems to be of less value here in my experience, that can be remedied, though)
Where do I go from here if I want to stay close to the thought of a "religious warrior" who can kick undead ass, but also, not to forget, solo BSK as far as possible within those limitations. Oh, and I really, really want to use a Bastard Sword. Of course, she has wings, a sweet disposition and she's a righteous bitch in general, but that's all RP...

Or, short version: I'm clueless, help?

[clanan]

Depends on what you want. You want the more fighter paladin way (str based) or more the smiter way. (Cha based with smite evil) both have theyre ups and downs.

Do you want to plan you're entire build all the way to 40 now. Or just make the build as RP goes? (For example: You come across a barbarian and he teaches you the "barbarian" way)

I can give you a site with over 200 builds. And there are also paladin builds on there, but you have to adjust them to you're playstyle as there are also real bad builds on that site.( i can help you with that if needed)

[Cornflower]

Depends on what you want. You want the more fighter paladin way (str based) or more the smiter way. (Cha based with smite evil) both have theyre ups and downs.

Do you want to plan you're entire build all the way to 40 now. Or just make the build as RP goes? (For example: You come across a barbarian and he teaches you the "barbarian" way)

I can give you a site with over 200 builds. And there are also paladin builds on there, but you have to adjust them to you're playstyle as there are also real bad builds on that site.( i can help you with that if needed)

Well. I'll try to be crystal clear:
I want something that's useful in Blackstone. Soloing.
I want to plan my entire build all the way now.
There's no "barbarian way", I want the best classic "holy warrior" I can build for Blackstone. I'm thinking Paladin and maybe CoT, no RDD, wizard, rogue, whatever. Holy warrior in my book is Paladin and CoT (maybe). Also (bigger) maybe it can be WM, since I feel there's some religious vocation in being wholly committed to your Holy Avenger.
Cleric, that's another vocation in my book, so is Monk.
Now, if I just wanted the perfect Fighter with a thin veneer of a level or two of Paladin, there are lots of builds, I agree. But I can't find any good-looking "Pure Holy Warrior" builds. Perhaps there are none, hence my question.

[Ming]

Depends on what you want. You want the more fighter paladin way (str based) or more the smiter way. (Cha based with smite evil) both have theyre ups and downs.

Do you want to plan you're entire build all the way to 40 now. Or just make the build as RP goes? (For example: You come across a barbarian and he teaches you the "barbarian" way)

I can give you a site with over 200 builds. And there are also paladin builds on there, but you have to adjust them to you're playstyle as there are also real bad builds on that site.( i can help you with that if needed)

Well. I'll try to be crystal clear:
I want something that's useful in Blackstone. Soloing.
I want to plan my entire build all the way now.
There's no "barbarian way", I want the best classic "holy warrior" I can build for Blackstone. I'm thinking Paladin and maybe CoT, no RDD, wizard, rogue, whatever. Holy warrior in my book is Paladin and CoT (maybe). Also (bigger) maybe it can be WM, since I feel there's some religious vocation in being wholly committed to your Holy Avenger.
Cleric, that's another vocation in my book, so is Monk.
Now, if I just wanted the perfect Fighter with a thin veneer of a level or two of Paladin, there are lots of builds, I agree. But I can't find any good-looking "Pure Holy Warrior" builds. Perhaps there are none, hence my question.

Well depends, I see a pure holy warrior as two different aspects for mutliclassing. One could be the paladin/cot or wm combo for an offensive Avenging hero type play style. Or the protector of the innocent kind of play style I would see as something like Paladin/dwarven defender. But you're allergic to dwarves so...

Heres a sample build from the epic character builds guild website. I have never tried this build, but it looks good on paper at least.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nwnecbg ... 7-s10.html

Paladin(26), Weapon Master(13), Monk(1), Human

STR: 14 (22)
DEX: 13
CON: 10
WIS: 14
INT: 13
CHA: 14 (18)

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Paladin(1): Expertise, Dodge
02: Paladin(2): {Smite Evil}
03: Paladin(3): Weapon Focus: Battleaxe
04: Paladin(4): STR+1, (STR=15)
05: Paladin(5)
06: Paladin(6): Knockdown
07: Paladin(7)
08: Paladin(8): STR+1, (STR=16)
09: Paladin(9): Mobility
10: Paladin(10)
11: Paladin(11)
12: Paladin(12): STR+1, Spring Attack, (STR=17)
13: Paladin(13)
14: Paladin(14)
15: Paladin(15): Whirlwind Attack
16: Weapon Master(1): STR+1, Weapon of Choice: Battleaxe, (STR=18)
17: Weapon Master(2)
18: Weapon Master(3): Blind Fight
19: Weapon Master(4)
20: Weapon Master(5): STR+1, (STR=19)
21: Paladin(16): Improved Critical: Battleaxe
22: Weapon Master(6)
23: Weapon Master(7)
24: Paladin(17): STR+1, Power Attack, (STR=20)
25: Paladin(18)
26: Paladin(19)
27: Paladin(20): Divine Might
28: Paladin(21): CHA+1, (CHA=15)
29: Paladin(22)
30: Paladin(23): Divine Shield, Armor Skin
31: Paladin(24)
32: Weapon Master(8): CHA+1, (CHA=16)
33: Weapon Master(9): Extend Spell
34: Weapon Master(10)
35: Paladin(25)
36: Weapon Master(11): STR+1, Great Charisma I, (STR=21), (CHA=17)
37: Monk(1): {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}
38: Weapon Master(12)
39: Weapon Master(13): Great Charisma II, Epic Weapon Focus: Battleaxe, (CHA=18)
40: Paladin(26): STR+1, Epic Prowess, (STR=22)

Hitpoints: 398
Skillpoints: 174
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 24/22/24
Saving Throw bonuses:
BAB: 30
AB (max, naked): 42 (melee), 32 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 23/32
Spell Casting: Paladin(4)
Alignment Changes: 0

Concentration 40(40), Discipline 43(49), Intimidate 4(8), Taunt 43(47), Tumble 40(41)


01: Concentration(4), Discipline(4), Intimidate(2), Taunt(4),
02: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(1),
03: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Intimidate(1), Taunt(1),
04: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(1),
05: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Intimidate(1), Taunt(1),
06: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(1),
07: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(2),
08: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(3),
09: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(4),
10: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(5),
11: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(6),
12: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(7),
13: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(8),
14: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(9),
15: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(10),
16: Discipline(1), Save(13),
17: Discipline(1), Save(16),
18: Discipline(1), Save(19),
19: Discipline(1), Save(22),
20: Discipline(1), Save(25),
21: Concentration(6), Discipline(1), Taunt(6), Save(16),
22: Discipline(1), Save(19),
23: Discipline(1), Save(22),
24: Concentration(3), Discipline(1), Taunt(3), Save(19),
25: Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(21),
26: Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(23),
27: Concentration(3), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(22),
28: Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(24),
29: Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(26),
30: Concentration(3), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(25),
31: Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(27),
32: Discipline(1), Save(30),
33: Discipline(1), Save(33),
34: Discipline(1), Save(36),
35: Discipline(1), Taunt(4), Save(35),
36: Discipline(1), Save(38),
37: Concentration(3), Discipline(1), Tumble(40),
38: Discipline(1), Save(3),
39: Discipline(1), Save(6),
40: Concentration(4), Discipline(1), Taunt(5),

[clanan]

Here is a build i found and adjusted to Basterd sword. Though you could drop the Harper scout levels and add them to Paladin But you would lose 2 charisma and 2 buff spells. You could also drop the last 2 greater str for overwhelming and devastating critical.

Paladin(17), Champion of Torm(18), Harper Scout(5), Human

STR: 14 (28)
DEX: 10
CON: 14
WIS: 12 (14)
INT: 14
CHA: 14 (18)

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Paladin(1): Iron Will, Weapon Proficiency Exotic
02: Paladin(2): {Smite Evil}
03: Paladin(3): Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
04: Paladin(4): STR+1, (STR=15)
05: Paladin(5)
06: Paladin(6): Blind Fight
07: Paladin(7)
08: Champion of Torm(1): STR+1, (STR=16)
09: Champion of Torm(2): Extra Smiting, Power Attack
10: Champion of Torm(3)
11: Champion of Torm(4): Improved Critical: Bastard Sword
12: Paladin(8): STR+1, Divine Might, (STR=17)
13: Champion of Torm(5)
14: Champion of Torm(6): Cleave
15: Paladin(9): Divine Shield
16: Champion of Torm(7): STR+1, (STR=18)
17: Paladin(10)
18: Paladin(11): Alertness
19: Paladin(12)
20: Paladin(13): CHA+1, (CHA=15)
21: Champion of Torm(8): Epic Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, Great Wisdom I, (WIS=13)
22: Harper Scout(1): Great Charisma I, (CHA=16)
23: Harper Scout(2)
24: Paladin(14): STR+1, Great Strength I, (STR=20)
25: Champion of Torm(9)
26: Champion of Torm(10): Great Wisdom II, (WIS=14)
27: Harper Scout(3): Great Strength II, (STR=21)
28: Paladin(15): STR+1, (STR=22)
29: Champion of Torm(11)
30: Champion of Torm(12): Great Strength III, (STR=23)
31: Champion of Torm(13)
32: Harper Scout(4): STR+1, (STR=24)
33: Champion of Torm(14): Great Strength IV, Epic Prowess, (STR=25)
34: Paladin(16)
35: Champion of Torm(15)
36: Champion of Torm(16): STR+1, Great Charisma II, (STR=26), (CHA=17)
37: Harper Scout(5): Great Charisma III, (CHA=18)
38: Champion of Torm(17)
39: Champion of Torm(18): Great Strength V, Armor Skin, (STR=27)
40: Paladin(17): STR+1, (STR=28)

Hitpoints: 460
Skillpoints: 225
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 38/33/32
Saving Throw bonuses: Mind Effects: +2, Traps: +2
BAB: 30
AB (max, naked): 43 (melee), 31 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 20/31
Spell Casting: Paladin(4)
Alignment Changes: 0

Concentration 43(45), Discipline 43(52), Lore 6(13), Persuade 8(12), Search 4(6), Spot 34(38), Taunt 43(47), Tumble 40(40)


01: Discipline(4), Lore(4), Persuade(4), Search(2), Taunt(4),
02: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Persuade(1), Taunt(1), Save(1),
03: Discipline(1), Lore(1), Persuade(1), Search(1), Taunt(1),
04: Discipline(1), Persuade(1), Taunt(1), Save(2),
05: Discipline(1), Persuade(1), Search(1), Taunt(1), Save(2),
06: Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(5),
07: Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(8),
08: Discipline(1), Spot(1), Save(11),
09: Discipline(1), Spot(1), Save(14),
10: Discipline(1), Spot(1), Save(17),
11: Discipline(1), Spot(1), Save(20),
12: Concentration(15), Discipline(1), Taunt(5), Save(4),
13: Discipline(1), Spot(2), Save(6),
14: Discipline(1), Spot(1), Save(9),
15: Concentration(3), Discipline(1), Taunt(3), Save(7),
16: Discipline(1), Spot(2), Save(9),
17: Concentration(2), Discipline(1), Taunt(2), Save(9),
18: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(11),
19: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(13),
20: Concentration(1), Discipline(1), Taunt(1), Save(15),
21: Discipline(1), Save(19),
22: Discipline(1), Tumble(25),
23: Discipline(1), Tumble(1), Save(5),
24: Concentration(4), Discipline(1), Taunt(4), Save(1),
25: Discipline(1), Spot(5),
26: Discipline(1), Spot(2), Save(2),
27: Discipline(1), Tumble(4), Save(4),
28: Concentration(4), Discipline(1), Taunt(4),
29: Discipline(1), Spot(4),
30: Discipline(1), Spot(2), Save(2),
31: Discipline(1), Spot(1), Save(5),
32: Discipline(1), Tumble(5), Save(6),
33: Discipline(1), Spot(2), Save(8),
34: Concentration(6), Discipline(1), Taunt(6),
35: Discipline(1), Spot(4),
36: Discipline(1), Spot(2), Save(2),
37: Discipline(1), Tumble(5), Save(3),
38: Discipline(1), Spot(2), Save(5),
39: Discipline(1), Spot(1), Save(8),
40: Concentration(6), Discipline(1), Taunt(6),

[Cornflower]

Hey! That's two great examples of what I want. Maybe I can tweak them a bit to remove monk/harper scout levels. Also perhaps combine the two a bit to get the best from both? Hmm.... Needs some work, but thank you for getting me started. Inspiration, yay!

[clanan]

I considered building the Harper scout version, but didn't like the idea of gimping the paladin spells to much. They are to good to give up on. Here is another build using the paladin/CoT combination.

Paladin(26), Champion of Torm(14), Human

STR: 14 (25)
DEX: 12
CON: 10
WIS: 14
INT: 10
CHA: 16 (22)

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Paladin(1): Power Attack, Weapon Proficiency Exotic
02: Paladin(2): {Smite Evil}
03: Paladin(3): Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
04: Paladin(4): STR+1, (STR=15)
05: Paladin(5)
06: Paladin(6): Blind Fight
07: Paladin(7)
08: Champion of Torm(1): STR+1, (STR=16)
09: Champion of Torm(2): Improved Critical: Bastard Sword, Cleave
10: Champion of Torm(3)
11: Champion of Torm(4): Great Cleave
12: Paladin(8): STR+1, Divine Might, (STR=17)
13: Paladin(9)
14: Paladin(10)
15: Paladin(11): Divine Shield
16: Paladin(12): STR+1, (STR=18)
17: Paladin(13)
18: Paladin(14): Extra Smiting
19: Paladin(15)
20: Champion of Torm(5): STR+1, (STR=19)
21: Champion of Torm(6): Great Strength I, Epic Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword, (STR=20)
22: Paladin(16)
23: Paladin(17)
24: Paladin(18): STR+1, Great Strength II, (STR=22)
25: Paladin(19)
26: Paladin(20)
27: Champion of Torm(7): Great Strength III, (STR=23)
28: Champion of Torm(8): STR+1, Overwhelming Critical: Bastard Sword, (STR=24)
29: Champion of Torm(9)
30: Paladin(21): Great Charisma I, (CHA=17)
31: Paladin(22)
32: Champion of Torm(10): STR+1, Devastating Critical: Bastard Sword, (STR=25)
33: Champion of Torm(11): Great Charisma II, (CHA=18)
34: Champion of Torm(12)
35: Champion of Torm(13)
36: Champion of Torm(14): CHA+1, Great Charisma III, Armor Skin, (CHA=20)
37: Paladin(23): Epic Prowess
38: Paladin(24)
39: Paladin(25): Great Charisma IV, (CHA=21)
40: Paladin(26): CHA+1, Epic Toughness I, (CHA=22)

Hitpoints: 420
Skillpoints: 129
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 36/31/33
Saving Throw bonuses:
BAB: 30
AB (max, naked): 41 (melee), 32 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 17/28
Spell Casting: Paladin(4)
Alignment Changes: 0

Concentration 43(43), Discipline 43(50), Lore 3(3), Tumble 20(21)

This guy is more the fighter paladin using his spells and divine shield and might to add some extra defense/offense to the fight. Off course you could rebuild him so you could also go less strength and more charisma. give up on overwhelming crit and devastating crit + cleave features and add some smite evil to the cause. Though you have to fight evil aligned monsters to make it work.

[Cornflower]

I like that one. I'll start experimenting with it. I like that it's using using more CHA, just enough STR to get DevCrit, since you're supposed to get your power from GOD....

Gonna make a simulation and see. Thank you!