Crafting weapons...

[gniht]

I have been trying to craft some weapons, and it's extremely frustrating. It takes hours of time to find red stones, and then when I go to forge them I cannot get the damage types I want, or I get extremely low rolls when I do. In general i like the crafting system but I really hate so much randomness in the effects. So many items may start out good and then get ruined by not being able to get the stats you need... it's nearly impossible to get an optimized kit together. While I totally understand that it's not good for it to be too easy, I think the level of difficulty is better controlled through rarity of stones and the need for higher crafting than by pure randomness.

Out of 4 red stones I have rolled:

2d6 cold
2d4 sonic
2d6 cold
2d4 cold

this is also after investing a lot of time to get as much craft skill as possible (120 craft weapon)

[Capt Cliff]

You need to RP this to get your answers.

[gniht]

You need to RP this to get your answers.

I have no clue why I would need to RP anything regarding this. I'm posting in general on forums not interacting with people in game... so your comment makes absolutely no sense to me. If you want to think of it in RP terms just consider the reality of what's probably the realm's most skilled craftsman getting some of the lowest results repeatedly. This should simply not happen.

[Rakash]

He is not trying to find out what the forge stones do. He is wondering why the actual crafting skill has no impact on specifically the elemental damage roll. He has a crafter with +120 crafting, but is frustrated because he is getting nothing but d4 and d6 rolls multiple times in a row when other crafters with less crafting (80 crafting) get d12 rolls. This seems unfair considering how rare the forge stone is and how hard it is to get crafting up that high.

[Capt Cliff]

You need to RP this to get your answers.

I have no clue why I would need to RP anything regarding this. I'm posting in general on forums not interacting with people in game... so your comment makes absolutely no sense to me. If you want to think of it in RP terms just consider the reality of what's probably the realm's most skilled craftsman getting some of the lowest results repeatedly. This should simply not happen.

Yes, you do.

[Kane0]

If people want to find out the hard way, they wouldn't be signing up to the forums and looking for answers, no? This guy has obviously put in the effort to get involved and is enjoying the server, what would be lost in giving him some information?
And besides, knowing the answer doesn't get in the way of the ability to roleplay does it?

[gniht]

You need to RP this to get your answers.

I have no clue why I would need to RP anything regarding this. I'm posting in general on forums not interacting with people in game... so your comment makes absolutely no sense to me. If you want to think of it in RP terms just consider the reality of what's probably the realm's most skilled craftsman getting some of the lowest results repeatedly. This should simply not happen.

Yes, you do.

This is in no way a valid response to anything I said. If you can't explain the necessity for it, don't bother saying it's necessary, because if your response makes any sense it's only in your own mind, or in the minds of other people who have the same context of past experience on the server that you do...
To anyone else your statements are totally vague and unproductive and makes me feel like you're just trying to troll me. Either explain yourself or please refrain from commenting.

[driller]

This is by design and will never be changed. I follow the school of thought that adding uncertainty and overcoming randomness in the long run more satisfying than just giving something to the player after x.

I know some people hate this, but we will have to agree to disagree.

-driller

I have been trying to craft some weapons, and it's extremely frustrating. It takes hours of time to find red stones, and then when I go to forge them I cannot get the damage types I want, or I get extremely low rolls when I do. In general i like the crafting system but I really hate so much randomness in the effects. So many items may start out good and then get ruined by not being able to get the stats you need... it's nearly impossible to get an optimized kit together. While I totally understand that it's not good for it to be too easy, I think the level of difficulty is better controlled through rarity of stones and the need for higher crafting than by pure randomness.

Out of 4 red stones I have rolled:

2d6 cold
2d4 sonic
2d6 cold
2d4 cold

this is also after investing a lot of time to get as much craft skill as possible (120 craft weapon)

[gniht]

This is by design and will never be changed. I follow the school of thought that adding uncertainty and overcoming randomness in the long run more satisfying than just giving something to the player after x.

I know some people hate this, but we will have to agree to disagree.

-driller

I have been trying to craft some weapons, and it's extremely frustrating. It takes hours of time to find red stones, and then when I go to forge them I cannot get the damage types I want, or I get extremely low rolls when I do. In general i like the crafting system but I really hate so much randomness in the effects. So many items may start out good and then get ruined by not being able to get the stats you need... it's nearly impossible to get an optimized kit together. While I totally understand that it's not good for it to be too easy, I think the level of difficulty is better controlled through rarity of stones and the need for higher crafting than by pure randomness.

Out of 4 red stones I have rolled:

2d6 cold
2d4 sonic
2d6 cold
2d4 cold

this is also after investing a lot of time to get as much craft skill as possible (120 craft weapon)

I understand it's partly my OCD but I have a really hard time when I can't optimize things. And in this case it would literally be like winning the lottery to do so. But thank you for clarifying that it's not going to change, I needed to know whether this was the case.

On a side note, I think it would actually be worthwhile to offer forge stones from a merchant for gold as well. Obviously they would have to be extremely expensive, but it would create a good gold sink, establish gold as actually being worth something, and make it so if you didn't get lucky enough to find any forge stones of a particular type you could still eventually get it with enough farming. While this doesn't guarantee the roll you want when you craft, it would create a tangible way to at least know that eventually you could get enough rolls to probably get the roll you're looking for or at least close to it.

[driller]

This comes back to how I want the server to work. I don't want to hand everything to the player on a silver platter so to speak.
You can potentially create some very awesome gear using the forge. But it should not be a given.

It's what i said before, uncertainty and randomness can be compelling. If you are persistent(in the game), you can get what you want for the most part.

-driller

This is by design and will never be changed. I follow the school of thought that adding uncertainty and overcoming randomness in the long run more satisfying than just giving something to the player after x.

I know some people hate this, but we will have to agree to disagree.

-driller

I have been trying to craft some weapons, and it's extremely frustrating. It takes hours of time to find red stones, and then when I go to forge them I cannot get the damage types I want, or I get extremely low rolls when I do. In general i like the crafting system but I really hate so much randomness in the effects. So many items may start out good and then get ruined by not being able to get the stats you need... it's nearly impossible to get an optimized kit together. While I totally understand that it's not good for it to be too easy, I think the level of difficulty is better controlled through rarity of stones and the need for higher crafting than by pure randomness.

Out of 4 red stones I have rolled:

2d6 cold
2d4 sonic
2d6 cold
2d4 cold

this is also after investing a lot of time to get as much craft skill as possible (120 craft weapon)

I understand it's partly my OCD but I have a really hard time when I can't optimize things. And in this case it would literally be like winning the lottery to do so. But thank you for clarifying that it's not going to change, I needed to know whether this was the case.

On a side note, I think it would actually be worthwhile to offer forge stones from a merchant for gold as well. Obviously they would have to be extremely expensive, but it would create a good gold sink, establish gold as actually being worth something, and make it so if you didn't get lucky enough to find any forge stones of a particular type you could still eventually get it with enough farming. While this doesn't guarantee the roll you want when you craft, it would create a tangible way to at least know that eventually you could get enough rolls to probably get the roll you're looking for or at least close to it.

[driller]

I am going to walk back a bit on this. I thought about this and I am going to change the way damage and skill works.
Currently, it doesn't take skill into account at all. I will change this to where skill will influence damages.

But, it still will be random. What this means is, only the highest skilled player gets a chance at getting high damage rolls.
If you have a low craft skill, then you will always get the lowest roll. It is only when your skill goes up, that you start getting a chance at higher rolls.

-driller

[gniht]

Thank you!

It was a frustrating conceptual roadblock for me that high skill didn't seem to make any difference, so this is much appreciated. For the record I understand and respect your reasons for keeping the rolls random... I guess ideally what I would like to see is that after a certain skill threshold the lowest possible results are also no longer rolled. Either way though it's good to know that skill will be some kind of factor.

[Jake_Master]

Honestly I thought that was how it worked, +4 to ability modifiers with a higher craft skill, lower gets +1,2 or 3

Same with AB high enough craft skill gets +20 whereas lower craft skill gets a lower AB

I think craft should play a role but I think 120 skill points To obtain a good craft is a little overboard (this is literally dependent on finding the craft hammers)

Getting a craft up to 80-90s without the craft hammers of course is actually a pretty feat starved build that is pretty much useless other than crafting.

I like the idea, just hope the number to obtain a good craft is not astronomical as coming across the forge stones needed and rolling decently is challenging enough, Craftong shouldn’t be reliant and being able to find 2 craft hammers in the game

[driller]

The skill requirement is capped. A crafting build does not require any special equipment with crafting skills on it.

-driller

Honestly I thought that was how it worked, +4 to ability modifiers with a higher craft skill, lower gets +1,2 or 3

Same with AB high enough craft skill gets +20 whereas lower craft skill gets a lower AB

I think craft should play a role but I think 120 skill points To obtain a good craft is a little overboard (this is literally dependent on finding the craft hammers)

Getting a craft up to 80-90s without the craft hammers of course is actually a pretty feat starved build that is pretty much useless other than crafting.

I like the idea, just hope the number to obtain a good craft is not astronomical as coming across the forge stones needed and rolling decently is challenging enough, Craftong shouldn’t be reliant and being able to find 2 craft hammers in the game

[Kane0]

Thanks for sharing, we wouldn't be able to provide any feedback if we simply didn't know the mechanics behind it.