For the record....

viobane · Post by **viobane** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:02 am

Is it against the rules to attack a PC by using the radial menu? Do you *have* to change the player to dislike first? Just wondering since I and a friend got PKed and couldn't attack back in time because the guy was not an enemy via game mechanics.

It's not a whine, other than the fact that I never thought to do such a thing before. If it's okay by the BSK rules, then I may have to keep that rule under advisement.

Cajin · Post by **Cajin** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:01 am

well, if this is not described in the rules, I think it should be. PvP'ing is linked to RP correct? at least, that is what I always understood unless it is done in arena.

So basically, my opinion on this matter is that should ppl PVP, it should be done in a RP manner and include setting said char to "dislike" beforehand.

my cents in tha hatta!

wdpepsiman · Post by **wdpepsiman** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:52 am

might i suggest you take it under advisement. there is nothing in the rules that says you have to put somebody on dislike.

now as for being pk'd.....for those of you who do not know here are some guidelines to follow.

1. if you are rping and your rp is in a threatening manner to another player character or characters then you have just consented to pvp

2. taunting or cursing another player ic or ooc is consent to pvp.

3. pp another char and you are caught is consenting to pvp.

just a simple way to keep in mind what is consent and what is not.

and talking trash and running to the keep for protection does not relieve you from being pvp'd at a later date.

so remember talk the talk then you must walk the walk .

k9mouse · Post by **k9mouse** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:55 am

also, if someone runs up to me or someone in my party and runs away real fast, i will assume they tried to pp someone. I will gave one warning, stay away or die and if pp'er does not stay away, then they commit to pvp , therefor i will kill them in self defense... i do not like player kills, i will do that if i have too

this happens to my party once in the ants, but that pp'er wise enough to stay away and no harm came out of it

many of you know my views on pp'ing and player kills, so i will stop here

to answer viobane's question more directly, it makes no different how one another player as long the reasoning is right ie by dislike, menu system, etc

Fenrip · Post by **Fenrip** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:10 am

I'd like to hijack this for a moment and add the following question.

When is it ok to attack someone who has attacked a party member? A party member of mine killed a PPer while I was in the same area. Along comes someone who was in party with the PPer to raise him.

My party member gets into a discussion about the thief and the someone attacks him. I was AFK for a second (so the child did not fall off the back of the couch while dancing) and come back to see the last strike on my party member. Naturally, I attacked him and subsequently lost.

Now, if that someone came to the rescue from another area, is it ok that there was an attack on the killer of the PPer? There were some other details that likely make the attack somewhat justified but I want to make sure of the rules should I paste a PPer and a friend comes in from who knows where to "defend his party member."

Gibbo · Post by **Gibbo** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:30 am

It seems very 'exploitish' when talking about the hostile/neutral pvp settings, at least with spell casters.

If you and a mage enter combat with each other, and the neutral pvp settings are still in effect, the mage will not be able to effectively cast any spells that lock on a specific target (ie, any spell that isn't self or AoE based).

It's something to think about, at the very least.

As for the other questions... the way I look at it is that if you stumble across some group of people fighting, they have consented to PvP by the very action of fighting each other! All you need to do is consent to the bloodbath yourself and you're set for a merry moment of combat extremes. Of course, this only applies everywhere but the Arena. We need to be good sports.

On the flip side, I believe if you witness a PP take place.. then the thief still consents to PvP on the basis that he was seen stealing. Nothing quite so delicious as an angry mob with pitch forks, torches, and truesights.

Queen Naga II · Post by **Queen Naga II** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:02 am

By the sounds of this people are talking of the same PC here, especially with two constants being reported.... thief being raised by a party member and the location at the ants.

Couple that with the similar actions that are exploitive of the limits of the rules, the general metagaming, and lack of respect for both other players and the spirit of the server rules....

Carpe_DM1 · Post by **Carpe_DM1** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:07 am

When in doubt check the rules:

http://thewastelands.org/viewtopic.php?t=226

viobane · Post by **viobane** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:13 am

Carpe_DM1 wrote:When in doubt check the rules:

http://thewastelands.org/viewtopic.php?t=226

That's why I posted this topic... I don't see anything in the rules that indicates whether or not setting to dislike is the requirement for non-arena PvP.

The radial menu option for attack makes it so the victim of the attack cannot attack back without doing the same or setting the person to dislike.

viobane · Post by **viobane** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:14 am

Queen Naga II wrote:By the sounds of this people are talking of the same PC here, especially with two constants being reported.... thief being raised by a party member and the location at the ants.

Couple that with the similar actions that are exploitive of the limits of the rules, the general metagaming, and lack of respect for both other players and the spirit of the server rules....

Nope... No metgaming involved. In fact the person who did this was to the book as far as raising after and providing PPed items back after being killed (even if I didn't know my Eye of Akon killed the thief). ANd it wasn't in the ants. Sorry Naga, wrong on almost all counts here.

eclipse08 · Post by **eclipse08** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:10 pm

It seems counter productive for the would be thief to set his victim on dislike, thereby alerting his target to their presence. On the other hand, the Eye of Akon is a useless deterrent to PP if no one knows who has one. I guess that's the downside to trying PP in the first place.

IF I were to play a thief character, I would definitely not put my victim on dislike before attempting the PP. If the person responding to a metagaming request to come res my butt because I was an idiot who failed attempting to PP because an Eye killed me, I'd expect him to laugh his own arse off at my corpse lying there on the ground. I would not expect the responder to immediately kill everyone and everything in the area. There should have been a bit of RP there before the carnage.

Murken has only responded to one Metagaming request, but he only used Bigby's and did not actually attack someone. He let the ettins he buffed and enhanced do that for him.

Fenrip · Post by **Fenrip** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:20 pm

eclipse08 wrote:It seems counter productive for the would be thief to set his victim on dislike, thereby alerting his target to their presence. On the other hand, the Eye of Akon is a useless deterrent to PP if no one knows who has one. I guess that's the downside to trying PP in the first place.

IF I were to play a thief character, I would definitely not put my victim on dislike before attempting the PP. If the person responding to a metagaming request to come res my butt because I was an idiot who failed attempting to PP because an Eye killed me, I'd expect him to laugh his own arse off at my corpse lying there on the ground. I would not expect the responder to immediately kill everyone and everything in the area. There should have been a bit of RP there before the carnage.

Murken has only responded to one Metagaming request, but he only used Bigby's and did not actually attack someone. He let the ettins he buffed and enhanced do that for him.

The thief did none of the killing. It was the responder that did the swinging. I have no real issue with anything that happened EXCEPT for the consent question of whether or not my party member gave the responder consent. RP was not threatening as far as I could tell.

I clearly gave consent by trying to hit him after he dropped my toon friend.

viobane · Post by **viobane** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:20 pm

eclipse08 wrote:It seems counter productive for the would be thief to set his victim on dislike, thereby alerting his target to their presence. On the other hand, the Eye of Akon is a useless deterrent to PP if no one knows who has one. I guess that's the downside to trying PP in the first place.

IF I were to play a thief character, I would definitely not put my victim on dislike before attempting the PP. If the person responding to a metagaming request to come res my butt because I was an idiot who failed attempting to PP because an Eye killed me, I'd expect him to laugh his own arse off at my corpse lying there on the ground. I would not expect the responder to immediately kill everyone and everything in the area. There should have been a bit of RP there before the carnage.

Murken has only responded to one Metagaming request, but he only used Bigby's and did not actually attack someone. He let the ettins he buffed and enhanced do that for him.

And I'm talking about PvP, not PP. It would not make sense at all for someone who's PPing to alert people by putting them on dislike.

This all has to do ONLY with my question that in PvP, is there any sort of rule that if you are going to engage in PvP against another PC that you have to put them on dislike first, since if you use the radial menu attack option, the other character cannot attack back.

Gibbo · Post by **Gibbo** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:34 pm

is there any sort of rule that if you are going to engage in PvP against another PC that you have to put them on dislike first, since if you use the radial menu attack option, the other character cannot attack back.

To my knowledge and experience: No.

You'd just be stupid to do so if you were a spellcaster class.

And you'd be too slow to the draw if you couldn't attack back before you were killed.

viobane · Post by **viobane** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:01 pm

Gibbo wrote:
is there any sort of rule that if you are going to engage in PvP against another PC that you have to put them on dislike first, since if you use the radial menu attack option, the other character cannot attack back.
To my knowledge and experience: No.

You'd just be stupid to do so if you were a spellcaster class.

And you'd be too slow to the draw if you couldn't attack back before you were killed.

I think that's it... I was way too slow on the draw because I didn't know what was happening and why I couldn't target and attack back. I think even if I was aware and able to respond in kind my character would have died.