Kill Stealing..

[Fenrip]

I agree that intentionally moving in and taking the final hit as well as any drop is reason for getting beat on.

However, there have been times that I have snapped off a shot or two with a bow when I see a character Badly Injured/Near Death and overmatched. I usually ask if they want help but sometimes they are too busy to answer my question or just plain getting pounded. If I think they are on their way out, I'll bail them out. I'd never take their drop though.

Is it better form to let them get deadified?

[BaskingDemon]

Capt Cliff.. i'm confused about something... are you a Martian pretending to be an Earthling. Or an Earth dweller who's convinced he's from the planet Zod?

And if this constitutes a... 'flame' well boo hoo sucks to yoo admin staff, it's my first. Gimme a break. I canne take it nooo longaaah!

[Capt Cliff]

Capt Cliff.. i'm confused about something... are you a Martian pretending to be an Earthling. Or an Earth dweller who's convinced he's from the planet Zod?

And if this constitutes a... 'flame' well boo hoo sucks to yoo admin staff, it's my first. Gimme a break. I canne take it nooo longaaah!

It seems I have the very same questions for you! Like what the hell are you talking about! I assume your trying to be cute. Look in the mirror again there Quazimotto!

[Capt Cliff]

I read it as:

"If you Kill steal, you're consenting for PvP attacks" which is the server rule.

hence: PvP for KS

But that's just me. Obviously you read something completely different, CaptCliff.

viobane, PvP with KS without any social control (The DM) is anarchy and boring. It seems to me there is some sort of social hiearchy within Backstone Keep, there are guards in the streets. (BTW, which I have seen attacked by PC's) So if we are truely role playing with PvP one needs to fear the local athorities or you end up like Bonnie and Clyde. or Billy the Kid or John Westly Hardin or Dillinger ... I can go on but why. Don't use PvP with KS as a excuse to be a psychopath. Find a porn site with kill films and truly enjoy yourself! Don't go blind!

[Fenrip]

Whoa, let's put the torches down.

Just exactly what do you read it as Cap'n? I read it the same a viobane.

[driller]

Not to make it echo in here but....

If you kill steal, you are consenting to PvP.

-driller

[Caesius]

Being somewhat of a frontier town, the law within the keep do not concern themselves much over what happens outside of city limits. This kind of "wild west" effect tends to result in alot of Self Serve Justice as it were. There are risks with doing something like that unless you properly document the event leading up to the violence and you know you were justified in participating in it. That being said, much violence can be avoided simply by expressing your stolen kill frustrations with words first. When the words go unheeded THEN draw blades (and take screenies first). It's a fairly straightforward system. Archers who fire off a stray arrow can get forgiven and the ignorant can be given a little bit of quiet time. And for those who abhor PvP, send your screenies to DMs.

[Pretty Fly White Guy]

Anyone caught stealing my kills or loot will be treated harshly.

This counts as "frontin' on a homie" covered in section 4.3 of the "Holla atcha dawg" Manual.

This will incur some serious "beat downs"

Section 4.3
And if thy foe succeedeth in stealin' thy kills, loot or hoes, then a curse shall holla at he, and shall inccureth thyne beat downs.

Holla out.

[Jazelle]

I can understand archers or mages putting off a shot or two and not seeing the other person fighting. Each person's screen is set differently and not all of us use the highest settings or full screen. But once you notices that spawn is engage stop and move away.

The few kill steals I have had happen to me were right next to me. They knew what they were doing and were either on auto or just didn't care. I can remember many times forcing my char to stop and move away.

And yes if you are fighting you can't always answer a question right away. It is better to just back off because what you perceive as someone going to die is not always correct. They could be holding off until they have to use a potion or spell or already have cast it and just waiting for the effect to take place.

It is better to just back off and yes let them die unless they have asked otherwise.

The huge problem is those who go fishing for others. They collect all of the spawns in the area then force them to follow the person. Often this will cause if a lower level person is in the area for them to get hit. Spawns attack those they think are less then they are this is not always correct but taking all the spawns in an area is also wrong when there are others present.

There needs to be some curtisy about leveling your char in heavy traffic areas. Claiming a entire area is wrong but also when you see a area can only support a few people then you should move on. Also using summonings to steal is wrong too. Many times a few of us have staked out a areas and where the lines where only to have someone go summon crazy and cause hell for those already there.

[Shiek2005]

I, personally, may or may not say something as the situation presents itself. I have found that overall people are pretty courteous about it. There are a number of people who just powergame through BSK, though, who don't care about others on the server in their quest for loot and leveling. I keep that in mind and overall just ignore them, or move to a different area.

I had one guy who walked up to me, and without consent just started attacking me stating he was "practicing his craft". I could have been upset by the sudden attack, but instead I fought him for a bit then ran away after he summoned a earth elemental (very low level obviously).

I think that doing what you did is fine and good, but also keep in mind that in some occasions it is confusing about who makes the final blow on a monster esecially with ranged vs melee weapons and auot attacks when a monster attacks you. I think that when it happens, it is a bit of a mild irritation, but you have to keep in mind that since BSK is RP-LITE, some people take their "lite" very seriously!

I didn't read thru the entire thread (too lazy to read 3+ pages of posts) but thought i'ld drop my 2 cents here.

In a server like BSK it's wrong (and should be punishable) for a player to steal another's kill without first asking in IC (or in the case that said player asks for help). Whether BSK is RP-Lite or not doesn't justify that behaviour, the server rules should demand that players respect other players who are RPing, of course it's always polite (but not mandatory) to stop by if you see a player struggling with a monster and offer assistance or don't even ask if your asked for help.
Every server i've been too that has the slightest bit of RPing involved demand respect for those that are RPing and if BSK doesn't demand that than the rules are wrong.

Cheers!

[_Murdock_]

seen a lot of good reactions but still have a question.....

people keep talking about loot stealing but what about those that leave drop behind cause it isn't woth a lot of coins ?.......some expect others to spend they time cleaning they mess ? All it dos is create lag.

My 2 cents is someone take my loot......it's a thief because he know verry well it isn't his.

If I kill someones target by accident......I appologice and leave the loot for them even if its a rare drop or a rare forge stone.

[T'banyin]

It is easy to tell when someone is purposely killing your kills.

I usually go with the 'three strikes and your out' rule *chuckles*

Although, if I witness someone run up to me, while I am fighting more than one thing, stop a sec, and target the badly wounded one or near death one instead of one of full health, I will immediately switch my target from the monster to the player, because that is not by accident.

It is obvious then, that the person was looking for an easy kill to take, and nothing more.
Interestingly enough is the justifications they attempt to use in doing so.

When fighting, I usually never get below injured, I have potions kts etc, and can maintain myself, ( at any level ) without dying.

Claiming you are aiding them, by taking the monster near death is bogus, and a blatant lie.
If I see someone dying while fighting, I run up a nd use a healing kit on them, it requires very little effort on my part, and usually gets a 'thank you' from the person.

Paladin excuse is another one that is shameful.
" My deity will not allow me to see a person fighting more than one thing while they are hurt so I kill them all"
Mmm Hmmm.. I doubt Vor would back you on this

I have seen alot less loot stealing now that bags are missing, and everything drops to the ground.

Most people I hunt with buy an electrifier and destroy trash items I rarely see loot lying around of any value.
usually see things like a bullet here or there, and a hand axe etc etc.
No one complains if you pick them up and destroy them with an electrifier.

Stealing in general...
The crafty rogue has all but vanished from BSK, left in thier places, are the non crafty ones that refuse to even hide in shadows. They target, autofollow a player, and then do the 'pick pocket dance' and if I am anywhere near to see, they die

Am I a rogue? ofcourse! But you know natural selection has most wild animals killing off the lame ones, and I do so pity these unskilled lame rogues

Seriously though, If you are clever enough to get by with picking a pocket and not being caught, more power to you, if you are obviously picking, and making yourself known, you will be persecuted

*climbs off the soapbox*

[Capt Cliff]

Being somewhat of a frontier town, the law within the keep do not concern themselves much over what happens outside of city limits. This kind of "wild west" effect tends to result in alot of Self Serve Justice as it were. There are risks with doing something like that unless you properly document the event leading up to the violence and you know you were justified in participating in it. That being said, much violence can be avoided simply by expressing your stolen kill frustrations with words first. When the words go unheeded THEN draw blades (and take screenies first). It's a fairly straightforward system. Archers who fire off a stray arrow can get forgiven and the ignorant can be given a little bit of quiet time. And for those who abhor PvP, send your screenies to DMs.

Caesius, I am strictly speaking of bushwacking low lvl PC's to ripe them off and not PvP. Nothing was said to my PC he was just killed, massively 70 hp, BLAM! Knowing where the low lvl PC's have to go to gain ep and then jus lieing in wait for an unsuspecting victum is NOT PvP. It also really wrecks the game and that particular module. 1sty's now no longer have a safe place to go to get ep, relativily safe. You might as well put a ancient red dragon along the Blackstone Road, but that would draw high lvl PC's for the adventure, as it should. Be nice to have a palaidin guild where you could report this and then they would police the local areas. But ...

[Fenrip]

I'd be very surprised if you could not find someone at the oak to help you out. A little roleplay and the opportunity to flex is just what some poeple are looking for.

That is not a great solution as it is after the fact but it's about all I can say. If I heard about it happening, I'd scout out the place and the person so I could catch them in the act.

I personally have not had any problems anywhere aside from some immature behavior where it is clear that the person is sufferring from e-bravery.

[Caesius]

Caesius, I am strictly speaking of bushwacking low lvl PC's to ripe them off and not PvP. Nothing was said to my PC he was just killed, massively 70 hp, BLAM! Knowing where the low lvl PC's have to go to gain ep and then jus lieing in wait for an unsuspecting victum is NOT PvP. It also really wrecks the game and that particular module. 1sty's now no longer have a safe place to go to get ep, relativily safe. You might as well put a ancient red dragon along the Blackstone Road, but that would draw high lvl PC's for the adventure, as it should. Be nice to have a palaidin guild where you could report this and then they would police the local areas. But ...

I can understand the frustration of griefers in lowbie areas. I recall a few weeks back getting ambushed by an invisible shifter in dragon shape in the hamlet. I was only 2nd level at the time. After lying face down for about a minute or two I casually remarked at the crudeness of said shifter and since I mentioned it in party, everyone took an interest and voila, with hardly any effort, a posse was born.

There are a number of options available, the obvious one being the reporting of non-consentual PvP actions. Even if it is a bushwhack it still counts as Player vs Player. But that doesn't mean it was consentual. Of course, should sending screenshots to DMs be too slow a process and you want a more immediate solution, you should expand your network of allies to make it easier to gather a posse to hunt the varmints down.

Another option I have seen implemented is to switch to a ringer character that can kick butt to lay the smackdown. However it is considered by many as metagaming and shouldn't really be used in IC situations. But it can be pretty satisfying to deliver the pain to OOC jerks. Of course you will need to level such a ringer character first.