Pointless War

[tropiofCancer]

Report this postReply with quote by ST_DM_Myle on Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:41 am

What that means is that guilds are considered auto-consent with OTHER guilds.

This means that if a Hunter wanted to, they could openly attack a member of SOM. The response from SOM would determine the politicial result (if any) to that attack.

By having this Guild vs Guild standard, Driller is not 'punishing' people for being in a guild... He is actually forcing guild leaders to manage thier own people when they get out of hand.... or go to war over pointless causes.

This also means, that if a non-guildie attacks a guildie.... that they have just consented to PvP with every member of the guild that the victim is part of.

In short, .... if your part of a guild - you need to be respectful of your actions or you could ruin your own guilds reputation.

It also means that you can end up the target of entire guild ( and that guilds allies) if you pick a fight with the wrong people.





That said, it is still the best policy to offer your fellow players the respect of requesting consent, Doing so avoids misunderstandings and ill will due to confusion. And lets face it... do you really think you further your own characters RP by not asking for consent? I mean, seriously, if the player is going to use your consent request as OOC information, what makes you think they are going to be reasonable about an attack they did not consent to.

Guildies should not attack non-guildies without consent and non-guildies should not attack eachother without consent. Consent can also be 'implied' by a characters subrace type, being involved in certain types of RP and by certains actions IC or OOC.




If you still have questions, I suggest offering specifics... because this horse has been beat many many times and it is always the same answers. People really ought to be able to figure it out. It really is not complex.

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[klin brightaxe]

wdpepsiman name a place and time and this rp can be carried out i have no issues with this happening and i will see to it that this is done IC and rped our correctly thank you for your understanding and to clearify my earlier statement about being in a guild and leader of a guild yes i still own the SOM it was passed down in rp to Seri's aunt and therefore means i am still the owner and leader of said guild just not as Seri... and btw Go Alamore teach him that even he has to follow server rules and cant use the excuse i am not allowed to PvP because of guild rules sorry but server rules overwrite guild rules

Tell me how SOM is gonna RP their way out of bloodthirsty Kazrites looting , Burning , and defiling a temple that doesnt bow to them . Explain to me the point of SOM if they arent going to interact with the other guilds? This would never happen if Lin Wu (Berforam) was still around..or Kyo or for that matter Qui Chang . If the Hunters fall next stop is Starkson Isle , Do you think Jaz and Orty are going to wave from their battlements and say "No thanks Guys we're a Neutral guild" Kazrites are gonna pile the bodies of the innocent on their doorstep till they engage us which I have no doubt they will . This isnt so I can have my character running around slaughtering folks , This is why You and Jaz , and any other guild sends out ambassadors to each other and form alliances ( ie RP) . I will though allow you to deprive yourself of what is going to be a great event because I was asked to . If Luther shows up with 10-12 Kazrites and we set up shop in the middle of the monastary doing all kinds of nefarious stuff you can stand over in the corner all neutral and I swear no Kazrite will harm you .

i think the kazrites have alot more to worry about than some flower power tree hugging monks... remmber evil dosent have to like other evil.

[klin brightaxe]

by ST_DM_Myle on Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:41 am

What that means is that guilds are considered auto-consent with OTHER guilds.

That is the All father DM Myles in his own words spoken On January 15 , 2008 at 7:41 AM..what do you not understand?
I dont want to war with you , as a matter of fact you shouldnt even "own" a guild . I actually dont know anyone on BSK that "owns" a guild . A guild should be created soley for the purpose of character development , interaction with your fellow guild members , Helping newer players aquaint themselves with the server an initiating RP with the server as a whole . You dont "own" a guild . You start a guild to get players together that are like minded in the way the guild is geared , all of them own it . As I stated , I will come to the Monostary whenever we need to and do what we feel we should as the Kazrite louts we are , It is up to you as a Monk to decide how your character will interact . Personally I feel your cheating other players who play monks out of a good RP oppurtunity and I got no problem with you "owning" SOM..Until Berforam , Kyo , or Qui Chang come back and actually run it as it was meant to be years ago . At that time I will file a grievance with the Administration......as others have since I started this.

I do not like server wars.

But...

I support the server wars.


The problem with the server wars is that they are hard to avoid for people who prefer to RP and do not enjoy combat. This is why I understand Arwaine_Sunstar's position on this. I think she SHOULD have every right not to participate, but the problem is that so many characters are involved that it literally puts her in the position that her character would have to shove her head in the sand to avoid the RP.

The other problem with server wars are those who use it as a case to be bullies or force RP down the PvP route. ... This is something that should be reported to a DM. While it can sometimes be hard for a DM to declare a 'war related death' to be a 'baseless attack' and we may not be able to give you the resolution you want ( and likely should get) - such reported incidents does give us a heads up. If we get multiple reports of Player-X being a PvP bully; it makes it easier for us to decide how to deal with it.

I support the server wars because some of the best RP comes from the debates, monologues, sneaking and schemeing that take place in action to support such a conflict. I have seen several players (who do not get along) playing their characters in the Keep and interacting on matters affiliated with these kinds of goings on. In the 'ideal situation' - players will put the 'server/world RP' first and put their fueds on the back burner since they are both involved with so many mutual or shared RP's related to the primary one taking place.




It is important to note that despite the difference between the 'rp crowd' and the 'PvP crowd'... these two game style can exist together and produce great fun. The key is for players to communicate OOC in a friendly manner and not let the IC hostile situations between characters be misunderstood as cruel or intentional OOC meanness. I realise many of you like to say "this is just a game", but not everyone is as detached. It would not hurt to learn which of your co-players need a comforting pat on the back or friendly word so that they can associate the suffering of their character as a shared experience toward a goal meant to eventually be fun ... rather than a lonely nerve-racking panicfest.




As for Gryph.... hehe... you did a good job on that Kazra/Vor RP. However, what I think Arwaine_Sunstar was referring to was how that scerio ended and then was quickly followed by serveral other efforts to stir another server war even though there were many who were burned out on that style RP. What she may be worried about is another spiraling series of war followed by war, followed by war followed by... *yawn* another war...

I do think that stiring up war between factions has become the 'cheap ticket' to action. It would be nice if those leading this current effort would stress some focus on setting up a real victory and a scenerio that they could actually win and perhaps 'possess' an area and rule over it. I think giving 'evil' a go at ruling would do a lot for motivating clearer lines and ideas.... and perhaps get some of those who like to sit the fences off their backsides.


In short.... please respect the desires of those who do not want to get dragged into a style of play they do not like.

At the same time, those of you who do not like this style of play - your going to have to accept that your RP will be very handicapped as you try to avoid this situation.... because once you invest in this RP, your in. It is not fair to complain about getting wet if your the one who jumps in the pool.

Myle

that was posted on Fri May 09, 2008 4:20 am... im gonna go with what he posted then

[klin brightaxe]

by ST_DM_Myle on Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:41 am

What that means is that guilds are considered auto-consent with OTHER guilds.

That is the All father DM Myles in his own words spoken On January 15 , 2008 at 7:41 AM..what do you not understand?
I dont want to war with you , as a matter of fact you shouldnt even "own" a guild . I actually dont know anyone on BSK that "owns" a guild . A guild should be created soley for the purpose of character development , interaction with your fellow guild members , Helping newer players aquaint themselves with the server an initiating RP with the server as a whole . You dont "own" a guild . You start a guild to get players together that are like minded in the way the guild is geared , all of them own it . As I stated , I will come to the Monostary whenever we need to and do what we feel we should as the Kazrite louts we are , It is up to you as a Monk to decide how your character will interact . Personally I feel your cheating other players who play monks out of a good RP oppurtunity and I got no problem with you "owning" SOM..Until Berforam , Kyo , or Qui Chang come back and actually run it as it was meant to be years ago . At that time I will file a grievance with the Administration......as others have since I started this.

i think the reason most of the monks dont want to get involved is becuase most of us are under level 30, and i plan on playing a compleatly different charactor than a monk during this war.

[Pharo_IK]

those who say that Starkson will do what it needs to to stay out of war are correct. however, what we do to stay out of war will remain IC. Starkson does not, has not and will never go begging DM's for aid and succor. if someone violates the rules, we will report it, but that is a far cry from having DM's settle our IC disputes.

i will have it known that Starkson has never hesitated from participating in anything when our aid was truely needed.

however, we are not lambs that will let ourselves be led to slaughter.

it is true that we will sometimes sound retreat. we have a standing order that we are not to allow all of our number to fall on the field of battle. few, if any, of our characters are professional warriors. we do not hold to any stupid code that will end up with us pointlessly dead. it is true that the Hunters have been angered at times when we have sounded retreat and they choose not to follow and the battle was lost... however, it does not help the Hunters or the Starkson to have everyone dead or captured.

our agreement with the Hunters is to come to their defense if they are attacked without provocation. this is one of the reasons why past Kazarite leaders tried to pick a fight with the Hunters and get them to strike first; so that they would not have to trigger the alliance with Starkson and SOM also. other times, Kazarites have purposefully attacked the Hunters for the very purpose of forcing the Starkson and SOM into responding.

such alliances can work for and against those who hold them.

in ths matter, Starkson will seek a peaceful route and avoid combat for as long as they can. if our hand is forced, we will support the Hunters and/or SOM - though i am not sure if we have many characters that would serve any better than as speedbumps currently. Winesa, herself, will try to RP things. her most effective weapon is diplomacy and she has been known to keep talks going until those opposed to her yielded just to get her to stop talking.

if i recall correctly, once Tamana and her then husband tried to start a war with the Hunters and Winesa basically talked both Tamana and Raven into a loose truce that helped narrow the number of conflicts considering at that time we had three Kazra factions all picking fights with eachother and everyone else. it made for an annoying confusing period of time.

anyways, specific to this current RP war. Starkson will try to avoid it, remain neutral and try to negociate a peaceful solution for as long as we can. the problem is if we do get dragged in - i only really have two characters would would be of any help. and 'Enigma', the one most likely to be the most helpful - is disliked by the Hunters almost as much as they dislike the Kazarites - so this could get interesting.




so those of you who are claiming that everyone should just count Starkson out - get a grip.
just because we do not look forward to PvP and will do our best to avoid it - that does not mean that we will ignore valid RP developments.

Pharo

[ST_DM_Myle]

Arwaine_Sunstar - the fact that SOM is mostly lowbies that do not what to be slaughtered is something that I am fairly sure everyone can understand and sympathize with.

That said, keep in mind, if you want to remain out of this, it is up to you not to get involved. If your members get themselves involved, youe either going to have to get them out through RP or specifically point out that they are not acting with authority of SOM.

The server rules are specific: when it comes to Guild vs. Guild ... your automatically considered auto-consent.

The application of appropriate RP and giving fellow players appropriate respect are the points that I was trying to drive home.

If a group of Kazarites jumped a member of another faction and "killed" (i.e. knocked out with CvC and captured with RP) that character .... they would "technically" be holding to the intent of the current rules. Of course, this means that the 'raise' would be OOC, because the PC was 'knocked out' as far as the RP was concerned and then the RP of the imprisonment could take place.
The key factor here being the RP.

If a group of Kazzies jumped a member of another faction and killed them and left.... that would be against the rules because there was no RP and no OOC raise.



Back during the Pale Sisters, they would run around the server sometimes killing people. The would RP for a few moments taunting their victims and then attack. At the end of the attack they would OOC raise the person and ask them to lay down where they 'died' and RP as dead. If the person was not 'likely' to be rescued anytimes soon, the Pale Sisters would let themselves be overheard 'bragging' about their kill. On a few ocassion the sneaky little feinds would let themselves be 'overheard' even when they had not even done anything...... then run back to the point they mentioned..... and ambush the would be rescuers.

I remember being on as player when they had killed my character once. They stood over my characters corpse and talked about how they planned to perform their next sneak attack on a faction I was part of.... it was really mean because they did that exact ambush a few weeks later and my character was in the group they attacked..... and I could not say anything to anyone cause what I knew as a player was not known by my character who was dead during their dicussion.

The point is that all PvP and CvC is not bad. It can be made fun for everyone, but people have to be willing to participate both IC and OOC.




Of course, it helped that the Sisters almost always set everyone to auto-hostile. This helped everyone remember that the game was a foot and to stay ready for them.



As I said, I support your desire not to be involved.... but your walking a fine line here regarding the server rules. This will probibly make things harder for you than if you just exchange PM's with Tropic and discuss ways that this can work to both of your advantages and apply what you two agree to in your RP's.

Rather than just closing all doors on this RP, consider seeking doors you are comfortable opening. I am willing to bet that your fellow players would rather have you involved with some mutual understandings, than feel like they have to avoid you or shun you to avoid upsetting you and having to deal with OOC fallout over something meant to be IC.


As I indicated in my previous post: I am basically of two minds when it comes to server wars. I understand how both sides view the issues involve in these RP's that are over very large and sweeping. Communication is the key.

Myle

[Arwaine_Sunstar]

alright Myle i did as you asked and sent the PM i only hope that he reads it and understands my points in it and does not take offence to it i was not mean in it i simply explained the reasons as to why the SOM does not wish to be involved and explained that those of us that play SOM members will in fact be on as other characters but that we also need the time to train before getting dragged into this war or it would be completely unfair for none of us would survive one attack by a kazrite let alone an attack by all of em.....

i truely hope that with this said that i can finally sit down and enjoy some time on the server without the headache and griefing from people over my reasons as to why i wish the SOM to remain out of this war based on what was said in the PM to Tropic.....

and to touch base on how one owns a guild it's called when said guild members were asked to donate towards the new guild hall only 3 members donated anything towards it and since i am about to go back to the way the SOM was run before with the restriction placed on it's members alignment wise any and all evil monks are about to be forced out of the guild since they cant seem to be trusted in character as was clearly noted in character because of rps said annomous sorce leaked information to the former leader of the guild who passed on said information to the couple people she could trust in the order...

[tropiofCancer]

After much belly aching and OOC clutter mucking up the War we have all put so much effort in , Some of the other guild leaders and I have decided to omit SOM from the coming war . It was our intention to get the entire server involved in one form or another (not neccessarily PvP) but its not really working out they way we wanted it to . Those of you in SOM who would like to get involved can do so in all sorts of creative ways and there are several guilds that would welcome players like that . The Merchants Guild , The Hunters , Kazrites , and Starkson are all ran by extremely good players and people . I encourage you all to get involved in whats going to be a really fun event . Also it would be great to see some new guilds band together to defend BlackStone from the coming storm ..just a thought

[klin brightaxe]

a new guild is working on forming as we speak. more details will be posted in the next couple days.

[Hordack]

a new guild is working on forming as we speak. more details will be posted in the next couple days.

Not that I would not mind a "New Guild" around ... this guild must have a legit reason to be in the RP.

Not going have weeks of RP sent down the crapper again for unneeded "Occ Drama" cause people can't handle few us playing true to heart Kazrites and following the "4 Pillars of Kazra".

Guild Leader's need accept the fact assassnation's are a fact of life and deal with it. It's why we have group known as the "The Order of Shadowstalker's"

Also why we have Groups like the Hunter's to protect the innocent and give aid to those who have nobody to help them.

Kazrite Horde has a purpose in the Keep as well, reguardless what other's think.

Merchant's Guild provide's Free trade and protection to those who wish to sell goods in the Keep.

Sorry sound like prick but already had this nice RP mucked up once and few of us are real picky about who going to get to be involved in it, so not to ruin our fun.

[Pharo_IK]

hey guys, i know you are peeved, but this is still an RP-Lite server. try to roll more gracefully with things and don't take this so personal. the people who said they do not want to be involved have not tried to ruin your RP, they just don't want to be part of it. there are still lots of other options and outlets for your scenerio.

Pharo

[Roland Deschain]

hey guys, i know you are peeved, but this is still an RP-Lite server. try to roll more gracefully with things and don't take this so personal. the people who said they do not want to be involved have not tried to ruin your RP, they just don't want to be part of it. there are still lots of other options and outlets for your scenerio.

Pharo

Things are not always as they seem.

[Thanatos]

Things are not always as they seem.

Good lord man, could you possibly be more cryptic?

[klin brightaxe]

a new guild is working on forming as we speak. more details will be posted in the next couple days.

Not that I would not mind a "New Guild" around ... this guild must have a legit reason to be in the RP.

Not going have weeks of RP sent down the crapper again for unneeded "Occ Drama" cause people can't handle few us playing true to heart Kazrites and following the "4 Pillars of Kazra".

Guild Leader's need accept the fact assassnation's are a fact of life and deal with it. It's why we have group known as the "The Order of Shadowstalker's"

Also why we have Groups like the Hunter's to protect the innocent and give aid to those who have nobody to help them.

Kazrite Horde has a purpose in the Keep as well, reguardless what other's think.

Merchant's Guild provide's Free trade and protection to those who wish to sell goods in the Keep.

Sorry sound like prick but already had this nice RP mucked up once and few of us are real picky about who going to get to be involved in it, so not to ruin our fun.

well the new guild is going to be a mercinary syndicate. we are all for the war and do accept cvc,pvp,rp in all forms.

[Thanatos]

well the new guild is going to be a mercinary syndicate. we are all for the war and do accept cvc,pvp,rp in all forms.

Why do I see things getting really complicated really fast?